Handicap/Tournament Committee Questions
If you have any questions about your handicap or questions for the tournament committee please post them here.
If you have any questions about your handicap or questions for the tournament committee please post them here.
I saw that I am listed in the wrong age group. I will be 71 in July and registered for the Masters division but you have me in the Super Senior. Thanks for you attention, please let me know you received this.
Curious as to why Floyd flight in Masters has 34 players and Ballesteros flight has 41 players. The cut-off for Floyd is 18.8 and start of Ballesteros is 18.9 with 2 players with that handicap. Seems like Floyd should at least go to 19 to even it out a little.
Here’s to a healthy and safe 2022 Mesquite Am Golf Tournament – cheers!!!
No question today. Just wanted to thank Christian and the Committee for putting on another Great Tournament. And as always, a Great Thank You to all the Wonderful Volunteers. 2021 was my last Tournament. It has always been a Great Time. Back to being just a Recreational Golfer, and enjoying myself on the course.
Thank You again for all you do, and will continue to do.
It would be nice if the daily “Notice to Competitors” sheets listed any holes where there is a DROP ZONE. Nothing worse than a Super Senior or Master flight participant going 5 or even 7 off the tee on forced carries only to find there was a drop zone.
Eagerly awaiting Christian’s return from vacation and the Participant list for the 2021 Mesquite Am.
Here’s to a healthy and safe 2021 Mesquite Am Golf Tournament – cheers!!!
Hi Christian
When will you be posting the list of players and a possible course rotation schedule.
We all are looking for some positive news from the tournament committee?
Please let us know
Thank you for all you do.
Received.
Hey Tournament Committee Folks, When can we expect our tournament fee refund?
When will we know further information on the new dates? Just a couple of questions: First- Go / No go. How many contestants? When will flights, courses and game day details be available? Many others but the cone of silence is formidable. Hope we are still a go.
Kerry
We’re all wondering the same thing. I think Christian is looking at the final numbers to see where he may have to combine flights regardless of age. I can pretty much bet he doesn’t have enough of the 49 and under age group to make a flight.
Gentlemen & Ladies,
Just throwing a wondering out there, About how soon until we may see Participants List & Course Rotation?
Thank You, am looking forward to getting this Tournament Started.
Will the switch to the World Handicap System have an impact on the handicaps for the 2020 tournament. I understand that the change altered handicaps slightly making a variation year over year related to current verses last 12 months. When you consider current handicaps are taking into consideration PCC and the calculation is different as well. Just wondering if current handicaps will be used to make the system more equitable?
I know monitoring handicaps can be a difficult issue but when you see the same issues every year with the same players and when you can pick who is going to be in the finals , something is wrong. It is getting old seeing the same name at the top of the leaderboard with under par scores every tournament in the Mesquite Am as well as other events they are entered. How does 19 handicap shoot 10 under for the event and 11 under in the finals. This defies all statistical models, being under the 12 month low handicap every round and every event.
EASY FIX.- Use the 12 month low or an individuals Mesquite Am Handicap which ever is lower. In todays technological world the golf genius should be able to calculate with a few strokes.
#1 It is critical that the Mesquite Am does not facilitate any more 6 hour rounds. All three rounds in the Masters flight went 6 hours and one round 6 hours and 15minutes. I think the biggest problem was placing a 136 golfers on the same course.
I know they have a difficult job doing the handicapping of 600 plus golfers but when a person shoots 15 under par and he is a 17 handicapper he shoots 4 straight days in a row below par and they don’t do anything it is a sham. Shame on you for not DQ him. In The World Am he would have been adjusted than DQ
Thank you to the entire staff of the Handicap/Tournament Committee – job well done!
Thanks for another great tournament. Question about my score not posted for 5/29 at Conestoga. The other 2 days were posted to ghin just fine.
last year the handicaps were already out at this time
Will we be using the new local rule regarding lost or out-of-bounds balls where a generous drop with two stroke penalty is used? I am referring to the rule under “Special or Required Relief Procedures”, Rule E-5.
So looking forward to seeing the participants list.
I mistakenly put my wifes handicap on my application. Please change my handicap to 23.8
Thanks Lael Collins
Patience my Dear friend, Patience. Christian & his Team are always very busy this time of year.
Christian
My first question to you when will the course rotation come out and most of all when will you post the list of attendees?
Looking forward to this year again as always and the wife is coming in for the luncheon at Katherine’s on Thursday she is all signed up.
CANNOT WAIT!!
Christian,
Regarding NEW GOLF RULES 2019 | The 20 Most Important CHANGES!
Will these new rule changes be enforced in the 2019 Mesquite AM next year?
Please let me know and as always CANNOT WAIT!!
Also have a safe and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Thank you
Christian,
Is there going to be a listing of the participants for the two man tournament next month. Would like to see who the competition is going to be at this point.
See you soon,
Ron Duncan
Haha; thanks for the encouragement Jeff! See you in the desert soon…Fore –
Dan, you can always move down to our group where you will be 33 to 1. There are quite a few in our two flights that are 50 and over. Dan Mower played in our flight and he was 60+. Do you really need to move up to that tee box, Dan?
I think that there are more over 50’s than there are under 50’s in our flight. Hell we have one 69 or 70 yr old playing down. Come on down Monico. Join the fun. STMF
Wow George,
What a Gap from Low HI to High HI in the Mickelson Flight: 9.1 – 34.1
Luck be with you Young Man
I think I am a 9.2. I am moving down into the woods flight if I can. Giving up that many strokes can hurt, LOL. STMF
The handicap Gap is horrendus!!!!
There is only one guy that is over 18 in the michelson flight. Everyone else is within 9 of each other. Same as woods flight. STMF
Christian, any thought to adding a “4th Flight” to the Senior Flight(s)? By doing so, each flight would have @ 30 golfers. @ the same number of golfers as all of the other Flights within the tournament; Super Seniors, Masters & Females. If not, the Senior Flight(s) will have @ 40 golfers. We are close to Las Vegas, correct? Which odds would you prefer; 30 to 1 or 40 to 1?
If it’s a great idea, I’ll take the credit – if it’s a bad idea I will blame it on Barbas! Boom!
Thank you –
Boston,
I agree, have been in Flights that have 14 or so HI’s, to my 23 or so HI.
And yea, would be the same number of Golfers on the course.
And each Flight would have a more close level of play.
Dan
That’s a great idea and a fair one. We are also going to have more golfers on the course each day so besides having to beat higher odds each day we have to be out in the heat longer.
Jim
Actually, the 2 under 49, Low Ladies & Low Masters are all on the same course.
So as of now, they are the only folks that have 4 Flights per course.
So they also may experience longer rounds.
Boston
4th Flight added for Senior Men.
Thank you; Christian, George, Kerry, Jeff and the rest of the Mesquite Krewe…Let the games begin!!! It’s going to be a wild ride, regardless of where we finish, it’s all about the friendships and living life to the fullest! Enjoy –
Boston
I am not part of the Mesquite Krewe.
Just another Tournament Participant.
Are we getting handicap verification forms to fill out or is Christian and crew looking them up for us?
Christian’s team will do the verification’s and they should be posted in the next week.
Christian
What is the Handicap breakdown for the Master Flights ? Will you be publishing them ? ?
Do you recheck the Handicaps prior to the tournament and make adjustments if necessary ?
I was just curious, no problems
Thank you for the post. We do recheck everyone’s handicap’s before the tournament. After May 1 we take the low 12 month index for each golfer from June 1, 2017 to May 1, 2018.
After we get that done I do repost the course rotation with breakdown on index range in each flight. I also post the players tournament index on the web page as well.
Christian,
Do you have a date when final rotation and handicaps will be put up?
Christian, only my 1st day at Coyote is posted, not Casa or Palms.
Darrell,
thank you for your post. Yes for some reason on some of the players not all 3 tournament rounds posted. Please go ahead and post those scores that did not post as tournament rounds on your own.
Christian
Christian, noticed that only 2 of the 3 rounds were posted to GHIN. Missing round from 6/1.
Steven,
Let me get with the scoring and handicap group and see about getting that posted for you. Thank you.
Christian
Check in was such a treat…no left handed clubs available….1 size fits all hat was too small…..I wear a 2x shirt and there was only one 2x shirt at 2PM…and it was definitely not my style. The gift card was sold out and they would have to mail it….what a wonderfull start for the week.
Alan,
I am sorry to hear you did not have a good experience in the tee gift area. We do try to order enough sizes and selection so everyone has something to choose from. Some items will come up a little short but that is why we offer the option to have items special ordered and mailed directly to the player.
Christian
The 2017 Mesquite Amateur Flight Lists are now posted on the website. We have also posted the course rotation with index range for each flight. We look forward to seeing everyone in just over a week!
Hey Christian I was just wondering it’s no real big deal are there any kind of return policy on the clothing that we got from the Mesquite tournament ?
Rich,
Unfortunately we are not able to exchange at this point. We do offer dressing rooms in the Taylor Made/ Adidas area so we do ask people to utilize those.
Christian
Christian,
Has the tournament adopted the USGA recommendation of a Local Rule for a ball moving on the green.
Rules 18-2, 18-3 and 20-1 are modified as follows:
When a player’s ball lies on the putting green, there is no penalty if the ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved by the player, his partner, his opponent, or any of their caddies or equipment.
The moved ball or ball-marker must be replaced as provided in Rules 18-2, 18-3 and 20-1.
This Local Rule applies only when the player’s ball or ball-marker lies on the putting green and any movement is accidental.
Note: If it is determined that a player’s ball on the putting green was moved as a result of wind, water or some other natural cause such as the effects of gravity, the ball must be played as it lies from its new location. A ball-marker moved in such circumstances is replaced
Richard,
thank you for the post. I was out of the office on a sales trip so playing some catch up. We will be adopting this local rule and we will have a print out in the player packets.
Christian
Christian,
Is it a typo or is the super seniors playing longer yardage than the seniors?
Tom,
Thank you for your post. I assume you are referring to the Seniors on the Oasis Canyons on Day 1. Yes those white tees are shorter but keep in mind the course handicap will be based on the tournament index and the slope of the tees being used.
The other component to take into account the blues are 6400 so there is a big change in yardage from the whites to the blues. If the Super Seniors were playing the Canyons they would be playing the white tees as well. I hope that addresses your concern. Thank you again.
The canyons is par 71 with a third par three on the front nine. If it were a par four you can add on 250-300 yards.
Chi chi,
I did answer him. Below was my response.
Paul,
Thank you for the post. Yes these are suggested rules changes for the game of golf. The USGA and R &A are looking for feedback on the proposed rule changes before they finalize. So we do encourage all players to become familiar and send comments to the USGA or R & A on the proposed changes. The final rules would be put into play January 1, 2019.
Christian,
Was an answer given to the Crazy Canucks’ post? Just curious
How do you know what flight you are in. Being 60-69 with a 17+ handicap. Am I going to be in the Player or Hogan Flight? Big difference on courses and yardage. Plus playing Coyote Springs which is a hour away from Mesquite do we still have a 730AM tee time or are we given additional time to get to the course. Thanks
The 2017 Tentative Course Rotation and Participant list as of 4/3/17 is now live on the website. We want to remind everyone that the course rotation is tentative so there could be some changes before the tournament. We will be updating the participant list every Friday starting 4/14/17. If you have questions feel free to call us or e-mail us through the website.
We will be posting a tentative course rotation and the participant list early next week after the March 31st deadline. We appreciate everyone’s patience. Registration is going great and looking like another great field for the 2017 Mesquite Amateur.
The rulle change does not take affect until 2019
Hello, I hope that someone can answer these questions that I have as they will affect the outcome of this years Am. Recently the R&A Golf Club and the USGA have announced some changes to the rules of golf and I was wondering if they will be affect this year. This is a simplified version of the rule changes. I only am using a few that I know I will see this year. 1. Accidentally moving your ball when marking it, addressing it, taking a practice swing. NO LONGER A PENALTY and move it back to its original position. 2. Forget to take the flag out because nobody thought that you drain the 50 footer – NO LONGER A PENALTY. 3. THREE MINUTES to look for a ball rather than the FIVE. 4. Move pebbles, leaves, twigs out of your way INSIDE THE BUNKERS and if your club brushes the sand on your practice swing or actual swing – NO PENALTY. 5. If your ball hits you in the chest after trying the hero shot (bunker shot or off a tree) – NO PENALTY. 6. You get FREE RELIEF from an EMBEDDED BALL IN THE FAIRWAY OR THE ROUGH. 7. Fix ANY MARKS in your way ON THE GREEN INCLUDING SPIKE MARKS – NO PENALTY. 8. Forget about the shoulder height when dropping your ball, just drop it FROM ANYWHERE, EVEN AN INCH off the ground.
Please advise as I know these new rules will stir some controversy this year. Thanks Paul MacKinnon (Canada)
Paul,
Thank you for the post. Yes these are suggested rules changes for the game of golf. The USGA and R &A are looking for feedback on the proposed rule changes before they finalize. So we do encourage all players to become familiar and send comments to the USGA or R & A on the proposed changes. The final rules would be put into play January 1, 2019.
Thanks Christian, my article didn’t mention that the rules would commence (if brought into play) in 2019.
After seeing the handicaps for this year I am listed at a 6.4 but my FSGA handicap is a 10.8 with a 10.4 trend. Why is it 4 shots lower?
When do we find out what courses we pl;ay?
David,
Flights with tournament index and course rotation are posted for you to look at on the website. Just go under “Event Info”.
Christian
how do i get the promo code
Who do I send question to regarding equipment rules
Mike,
You can post your question or feel free to e-mail us direct at sales@mesquitegaming.com . Thank you.
Christian
Christian,
Got your email about posting my scores but I am way ahead of you did that the first thing when I got home.
Next question when will the daily videos go on line???
thank you again for everything.
Christian,
The Hogan and Sarazen super senior flight championship round participants played at the diamond tees on Casa Blanca. You posted my score using the club tees. I can have my club pro make the changes unless you want to repost.
Christian,
If I am not correct we are to post our own scores from the tournament right?!?!?
Thank you again for everything you and your team does.
David,
The tournament does post scores for the participants. We just finished up today. There are some we are not able to post and we will be sending out an e-mail to those individuals for them to post.
Christian
hey Christian : how is it going I read some blogs looks like to some people need to get a rule book by some of questions they ask and maybe some one needs to check their handicaps also ??? since they don’t understand the rules some people I know live in the areas that how hard winters and can’t
during that time have to use the lowest index for their handicap
they call that rub of the green I had 5 by passes and could not play
so I got ding on my index 2 years ago so stop whining and ( MAN UP )
LETS PLAY GOLF thanks RL
30 rounds, I have 5 in. I went to Florida on spring break and got in 3 rounds, 2 other since than. The weather has not been the best in Chicago and if it was good I had family obligitations or work. Only 21 days till retirement, can’t wait.
I see I am a 12.7 what a hill I will have to climb with only playing 2-18 hole rounds and 1-9 hole round since November and each time I got worst.
I think I am in trouble!!!
Have to work on what I did in my first round in April to shoot a 82!! what the heck did I do wrong to shoot that??
Now that I am in the supper seniors how do I remember that I cannot even remember my name half the time!?!?!
But anyway I am there to have a blast, plus the fellow ship, friends, help George with the Bruce King fund and COMPETE!!
I am taking all bets!!! just kidding no really you will see me in the CasaBlanca bar selling raffle tickets for a good cause and of course you will know me because I will have that smile that will not go away!
Safe travels all!! see you soon CANNOT WAIT. less the 10 hours till wheels are up to Vegas.
Sarah, 30 rounds since march. I thought I was doing something special with 10. I think you will do fine, your a player. Can’t wait to see everyone. STMF
It seems to me that many of us are just “coming back to the game” after an inactive or off season. I imagine that’s why the tournament committee utilizes a players low index over the past 12 months. We are all in the same boat in that respect.
I would like to request that the handicap committee consider raising my handicap index. I am listed as a 10.2 and I understand that it is used because it was my low index during the past 12 months. My club has an inactive period from November 15-March 1 when scores cannot be entered from our course and I did not play much during that period so I am just coming back to the game. Since March 1 I’ve posted ~30 scores and after jumping to 15.7 I am now down to 13.8 but nowhere near the 10.2 assigned for the tournament. I propose an index of 12 (halfway between 10.2 and 13.8). Thank you for your consideration and let me know if you have questions.
Sarah,
If you would like to petition we ask that you e-mail the tournament committee at sales@mesquitegaming.com. Thank you.
Christian
Paul
I got you in the Sarazen Flight, Super Senior Men. Playing – Palms, Palmer & Canyons.
Go to EVENT INFO, then select your participant list and group.
Where do we find our index at and the names of the rest of the players in our flight?
Christian, we getting close to having the flights finalized or that not happening until Tuesday?
They just went up. Flights and course rotation. Thank you.
Christian
Steven, we aren’t pros so you can use a Callaway off the first tee and a Titleist off the second tee if you would like. Just don’t hit a Callaway off the tee and then hit your competitors Titleist from the fairway. Oops! It never hurts to announce that your switching balls. Like when I snap hook one into the desert I may elect to play a different type ball provisionally so I know which one was my first and second ball when I hit it in the exact same area. Hope that helps your answer. I think this is my 10th or 11th year and they have never had a “one ball” rule in effect other than what is stated in your rule book. There are a few tournaments back home that use the one ball rule. I don’t get why since I’m not sponsored by any golf company. Good thing to think about is that balls marked “PRACTICE” are actually illegal to use in competition.
Is the one ball rule in effect? ie can i use titleist on the front nine then callaway on the back?
Steven,
The one ball rule is not in effect. Yes you can use a pro v on the front and a Callaway on the back. Thank you.
Christian
Asking for yardage is within the rules. Asking what club you hit is another problem. If you have a yardage and someone asks what you got it would only help to speed up the process of decision making. Do your part to keep it moving. We are on vacation, but, lets not make it a 6 hour round. 4 1/2 would be nice. 5 hours max. It gets hot out there in the afternoon.
I’m pretty sure that things like yardages are considered generally available course information and are not considered as giving advice unlike suggesting a club to use or how to play a hole.
Ted,
Jeff’s post is correct you can offer a yardage but cannot give information on club selection etc. Thank you for the question.
Christian
Range finder Rules
If a competitor asks me for a distance with my range finder is he to be penalized and if I give it to him , am I to be penalized. I don’t want to be a jerk about not giving it to him but if it could cost me …
Kerry,
My index is now 12.7 right now but have only played once not to much to go on, trying to get out tomorrow but my not and Sunday is out over at the son’s house helping do a few things.
Next Saturday I have a Tee time hope the weather is good for the early AM Tee time.
OK I am 19 days till I am in Vegas, 23 days for the first skin game with George and my golf buddy’s getting a taste of playing in the desert.
So I CANNOT WAIT to see you again and everyone else.
George I am you guys for tickets sales again.
Handicap Index as of Today’s Revision: 23.7. But I don’t think this is my 12 Month Low.
When do you expect the hdcp indexing for the divisions will be posted?
Steve,
We will start doing handicap checks starting May 1 and we will be releasing tournament indexes around the middle of May once we have everyone checked.
Christian
when will the index ranges be added to the rotations
David,
We will start doing handicap checks starting May 1 and we will be releasing tournament indexes around the middle of May once we have everyone checked.
Christian
Christian
When will the initial participant list be posted
Tom,
I plan on having the first list of participants up next week along with the initial course rotation.
Christian
I’m playing in the tournament for the first time this year. I have a question about last years scores. Mainly, I’m trying to figure out if I can be competitive. I’m a senior and would’ve been in the Zeoller flight. When looking at the players scores from last year, I’m confused. They seem to all start, +2 and then they go from +5 back to E it’s very confusing. Are the scores handicapped? Or are those gross scores? How does the scoring work on the individual score cards?
John,
The event is a net event so handicaps are utilized. If you would like to e-mail me direct with your contact information and I will call you and we can discuss over the phone so I an answer any scoring questions. My e-mail is cadderson@mesquitegaming.com. I look forward to talking to you.
Christian
Christian
I am a UK golfer and interested in playing in the Mesquite amateur. It reelly looks like a fun tournament and I like the different divisions and flights. I will be in the senior group (55) and have a 7.2 handicap (CONGU). My wife will also be interested in playing. I do not see any “foreign” players on prvious years lists….would we be liable to play? Please let me know if we can enter.
Many thanks
Jacques
Jacques,
Thank you very much for your post. Yes as long as you have an established handicap you can participate in the event. We have had foreign players from France, Italy, Netherlands and Dubai just to name a few. We look forward to having you and your wife coming to participate in this years event.
Christian
Christian,
Just wanted to let you know I have posted my scores to my GHIN number.
Need anything else.
Thanks again.
My wife is pissed she can not make CasaBlanca Bunco tournament!!
I have somewhat the same problem that Fred Chambless has. None of the scores will show on my screen. My problem your problem.
George Nichols
George,
I just looked at scores again and did not have any problems pulling it up. The only things I would suggest is make sure to refresh you page when you get to the main page and try again. If you are still have problems e-mail me at sales@mesquitegaming.com and I will be more than happy to e-mail you direct the results.
Christian,
My scores are not reflected in our GHIN system as of this morning.
Andy,
You are correct. I should have looked at the error report I received before I made that post. There was an error when we tried to post your scores. You would be one of the participants that would get the e-mail from us to post your own. I guess lesson learned on my end I will not state that the scores will be posted by June 1. I apologize for any inconvenience.
Christian
Golfoddball,
Sorry to hear you will not play in another golf tournament but I am one of those that complain they are unable to play do to snow.(No Practice) my Handicap was 11.4 by Christian standards but in Chicago CDGA I am 14.5.
I played the best I could and did not care what my Handicap was I still shot +8 over my Handicap with 89, 86, 88 for all three days and made 10th in my division.
I know Christian and his tournament comity have there hands full and do a great job keep us sandbaggers in line.
But looking forward to 2015, sorry again for your issue take care.
Christian,
I am deeply disappointed that the tournament scores were not posted before the June 1st handicap revision, even after I personally asked you about this on Wednesday evening, and was assured that these scores would be posted during the Finals. I could have posted my own scores if I would have had ANY inkling that these scores were not going to be posted before Saturday evening. As my club’s Handicap Chairman, I have had a couple of incidents where players did not post scores right before revision time and it adversely affected their revised handicaps. Now I am in the same boat because of lack of posting.
On the other hand, thank you for a great tournament except for this item.
Andy,
The scores were posted on 6/1 and not 5/31 like I had anticipated but they when they were posted they were posted on the days of the tournament so round 1 shows as posted on 5/27 round two 5/28 etc.
Christian
I just saw the final results…a 20 hdcp shoots a 79….and the low gross is shot by a 19 hdcp…the Casablanca is not that EZ of a course for those kid of scores…I thought we were getting to the point where hdcp was being checked a little better than this…this looks like the World Amateur of 10 years ago…and that in not a good thing.
Alan,
Thank you for your post. I don’t see the 20 hdcp that shot 79. The low gross this year we took all of the players in the championship rounds gross for all 4 rounds and the winner of that was Jon Murray. I don’t know if you are looking at a past result for the championship round. I feel like the handicaps and adjustments went a lot better this year. There were some players that instead of using the low 12 month index but a tournament index for next year.
Christian
Well, golfing in the Mesquite Amateur has been great. Being accused of being a Sandbagger to your face by people you thought were friends sucks. There are those of you who don’t believe that someone can shoot their Handicap(a +2 ) instead of the +15 – +25 as in all previous Tournaments. And these people are in the RED and complain they are unable to play do to snow.(No Practice) I will continue to golf, but just Recreational golf. I will never play in another golf tournament.
Thanks and the formal request was emailed to the address listed above.
Christian
My index is 13.3 right now and I will gladly go down a flight, even if I have to take a further reduction.
Regards
Kevin
Kevin,
If you would like to send a formal request to play down a flight you can submit that to sales@mesquitegaming.com for the tournament committee’s review. Or you can stop by our table at registration on Monday May 26th in the showroom at the Casablanca Resort.
Christian
Christian
I cannot get the Senior flight and handicap page to come up.I have no proplem with the other 4 flights. All I get is the paricipant list. NO FLIGHT OR HANDICAPS. I have tried refreshing but it didn’t work. Is the proplem on my end or what? Would like to follow my buddies during the tournament. Please help. Thanks Fred chambless
Ok Shaun, here is a taste. “Now what you hear is not a test-I’m rappin to the beat and me, the groove and my friends are gonna try to move your feet”. Oh I am ready. Bring back Karaoke night. STMF
George it’s a deal you can sing it’s raining men or rappers delight sugar hill gang see you in 8 days
Ok, I remember now that you are going to the lowest handicap for the year. I will petition the Tournament Committee as I have changed locations, from Florida to Tennessee. Thanks.
Christian, my current USGA handicap index is 15.6 but you guys have me as a 10.9! Can you tell me how you arrived at that???? I have not had an index that low in quite some time. And I do not play anywhere near that. How can this be???
all right you 49 and unders and some of you “old” guys that decided to join us. Thanks for helping us get to 3 flights. I will be running a daily skins game for all flights combined. Yes thats right all of us together. It equals out the low handicappers play from farther back and us higher handicappers still suck. 20 bucks a day, each day I will not take for the week. Too many blackjack tables. You will know who I am. You’ll hear me. 6 days. STMF
Shaun I will sing to you. I got you brother. STMF
Christian what is the rules about listening to an iPod while playing in the mesquite am. I like to listen to music while I play at my home course.
Hello all! The flight lists are posted and course rotation. you will get your final flights and course rotation at registration on Monday May 26th. We look forward to seeing you all in a little over a week. go to http://www.mesquiteamateur.com click on event info and then participant list. You may have to refresh the home page when you get there.
Christian
Shaun,
USGA does not allow you to listen to music during tournament play. Sorry.
Christian
Christian, you just answered my first question. My second is that I need to pay for my wife to attend the nightly parties. Do I need to talk to you for that to happen? And what is the best time to reach you?
Jeff,
I will e-mail you a credit card authorization for the guest fee for your wife. You will see that today.
Christian
where is the updated course rotation with handicaps
Tom,
We are putting the final touches on it and should have it posted by the end of this week.
Christian
Great I love this new partnership and like George said I need to make the top 10???
Thank you Christian you and the staff have out done your self’s again.
I am with you Jeff the weather in Chicago sucks!!!
There will be some issues if I do not get some rounds in.
Christian how about putting me on the ladies tee’s, new driver no rounds in is going to spell trouble for you know who!! with all the SMACK talk I have been doing!!! the ladies will kick my @$$.
ROTFLMAO!!
The Mesquite Amateur is proud to announce a great partnership with Callaway Golf and Taylor Made for this years event. This year our top 10 flight winners will have a choice of going with a Callaway Gift Card or a Taylor Made Gift Card. Payouts will be the same as last year.
Thanks for listening, Christian. I don’t think anyone likes to play a course that is so short that they will be penalized every time they take the driver out of the bag. I think I’m going to be penalized for it, but that’s another story. I’m directionally challenged. We only have 3 weeks to straighten that crap out. It doesn’t look good for me.
Same thing for the Zoeller flight on the Palmer course. 5668 yards? Hope that is bumped up to the Blue tees. 5668 yards is awfully short. I don’t play courses that short even if for free. Like a little more length even if I am not playing well.
Thank you all for your comments on tee boxes and your concerns. We have started doing handicap checks for everyone and once we get the flights set with index ranges flights will probably see some changes on which they play. Once indexes are verified which should be done this week or early next week we will post an upated course roatation so all of the players have a better idea for practice rounds.
Christian
Christian, is this a misprint for the Woods and Michelson flight for the first day? Blue tees at 6160 and whites at 5668? The Woods flight has always played that course from the back(BLACK) tees. 5668 just seems a little too short for the 49 and under no matter what handicap they are. I’m not getting any younger, but, I’m still not ready to move up to that kind of yardage. If your looking to take the driver out of everyone’s hand in the Michelson flight you might have accomplished that. 8 par 4’s 340 yards and under. Longest par 3 is 178 and that is down hill. A 428 yard par 5? I’m not saying I’m going to score any better, but I foresee a lot of players shooting well under net par that day.
Christian: My lowest handicap index looking back over the past 12 months is 8.6, will you tell me if that puts me in the Watson group or Zoeller group in the Senior Division? I am looking forward to my first Mesquite Amateur and just a little curious as to my flight.
David,
We look forward to having you attend the even for the first time this year. Based on past years you would most likely be in the Zoeller but to be honest your indes has been right on the break between Watson and Zoeller. We will be doing everyone’s final handicap checks after May 1 and will have an updated course rotation with index ranges for people to look at. If you have any other questions please let us know.
Christian
Christian. I have been put in the super seniors, when I should be in the seniors flight. I’m only 59. Thank You
Victor,
I have made that change for you. We will post an updated list this weekend and you will see the change when we post that.
Christian
Kerry,
You are in. Looking forward to golfing in the desert. Even though the local course opened 4/1?! -still haven’t hit the course due to snow & low temps. Hope to swing a club on wed, will be in the 60’s!
Mr Garner,
Asked about the price of Practice rounds last time down, Casablanca was $50.00. So when you make the Tee Time for Sunday at Casablanca, add me to the Group.
Kerry
Kerry – Never mind , I opened website w/ another browser & was able to open the flight lists. Still having trouble figuring out these darn computers! Seems like there are other dupicate names on the list.
Kerry – where are you seeing the flight lists? I am not able to bring up anything when I log on. Thanks
Looks like on the Senior’s List, That # 52 & 53 are the same person, and also # 66 & 67 are the same person.
Maybe we should leave it to the tournament director. He’s been doing a pretty great job over many years.
i think Jeffs idea is great. I like the chips and the credit for next year. I know i will be back. STMF
How about CasaBlanca Poker chips? What’s the difference in giving out a gift card for cash value or giving out poker chips? Absolutely nothing. (Well, that’s not entirely true) And the good thing is that it will cost you nothing to do it. This would be a convenient option. I don’t know about the rest of you guys, but, I have enough golf crap. What about credit for the next years Mesquite Am if the players planning on returning? Gift cards good for use at any Mesquite casino or golf course for stay or play or good eats? Keeps that money right in Mesquite where you want it.
Hi Christian,
Looking forward to being with you again for my 12th. Have been promoting the event with my SNGA members in Vegas as well as pals from the Denver area. Look forward to great participation. Only comment/complaint I have heard is the awards being from Callaway. Always seem to be out of whatever you desire online using gift card. Heck, for me, I’d take Mesquite Pro Shop credit (if I ever won). Keep well and see you soon.
Cheers,
Leo
Leo,
Thanks for your post. I am actually looking at different options for the tournament and hope to announce something in the near future. The pro shop credit would work well from the region but for our participants that are traveling long distances we need to have something in place that gives them convenient options to redeem their prize. I appreciate the comments and look forward to announcing our exciting prize program.
Christian
Well add me to the list of Super Seniors for this year.
turned 60 in December not enjoying being in the SS club.
So when will the course rotation come out???
can not wait as I say all the time.
80 days till I am in Vegas!!
David,
I plan on having a tentative course rotation and intitial participant list up in the next week or two. Been traveling spreading the word of the Mesquite Amateur. Thanks!
Christian
Any Preliminary Numbers for us Curious until the Participant List gets put up?
Do all the super senior divisions play the same course at the same time?
Steven,
Typically the Super Senior Division is has the most players and has around 6 flights. So 3 flights will play one course rotation and the other three flights will play another course rotation.
Christian
Christian
Have not seen a reply to my above question about how your going to do the Handicap in the tournament this year.I’ve seen you’ve responded to other questions put in after mine. Still waiting for some kind of answer
Fred,
Sorry I missed your question it was not intentional. We will be using the low handicap index for the last 12 months leading up to the event. Much like last year if a player would like to petition the tournament commitee because of injury, surgery etc. we will take that into consideration.
Christian
Christian,
Have you decided how your going to do the Handycap this year? We have a group six here waiting to find out before we decide. If you do the same as last year { low handycap for the year} we most likely will not come. Would like to know as soon as possible so we can make plans and get airline tickets.
Christian,
are we able to use the blog again??
I know I will not abuse it just want to say in touch will everyone.
thank you again Christian.
David.
When is the Blog open for questions
I have noticed my tournament scores have not shown up on my golfcanada handicap? I thought they were being posted for us? If not plz let me know and i will enter them myself. Thanks and I had a great time!! Christian and George keep up the good work…
Cheers with Canadian Beers!!
Al
Al,
Yes we are not able to post through the computer on the Canadian system. If you can post your scores that would be great. Thanks for following up. If you need the slope and rating you can catch that on the course rotation on the website. Please remember to post them as tournament scores (T).
Christian
Christian,
Why was my tournament scores not posted? I noticed others were two weeks ago.
Jim,
On your entry we had an incomplete GHIN number for you so when we tried to post the scores the computer would not allow us to do it. I have a list of about 60 or so players with the same issue. So we are asking you to post your scores. We are sending out an e-mail to the people we had issues with this week. If you need slope and rating for your tournament rounds each day you can find them on the course rotation on the website. Thanks for following up.
Christian
Lepha got her long delayed prize From the Mesquite Amateur today. She was awarded 2nd prize of $525 by the Operations Director of Mesquite Gaming after investigating the handicap adjustments and finding that they were subjective and not warranted.
George,
Thank you for your kind words. I agree there is no place for name calling and insults. It is frustrating though when you are adjusted by a TC and they refuse to go through the math step by step pointing out where each USGA rule and or table was applied and how they came up with their final figures. I believe fairness and right will prevail in the end.
Thanks Again
It is easy to Skin a Bird.
I have kept pretty quiet on this and wanted to stay out of the “I’m brave so I will sit behind a keyboard and throw barbs out at people” world but when people start throwing around barbs like no class and questioning someones ethics, especially someone that I have known for years and have personally had discussions with, on a phone or face to face, I decide to step in and say my peace. Lepha, I don’t know what happened, I am sorry for what happened to you. I hope you return, if you don’t I wish you the best. Jim, your a good man, defending your wife as any husband should. I hope to see you again. Both of you did what you did with class, never resorting to name calling or suggestive remarks like others. For the rest of you. How many of you have called Christian to discuss this with him, or even emailed him. If you have good for you, if not shame on you. Using social media to call names and make suggestive comments is so juvenile. As Jeff said let it go. If you can’t pick up the phone and call the man. Its how we do things in the grown up world. I have said my peace and I am going back to my small world now. Hope all got home ok. See ya next year. STMF
Payne Stewart said, “In the end, it is just the game of golf, and at the end of the day if you can not shake hands with your partners and still be friends, then you have missed the point.
I never dreamed that me shooting a 90 on the final tournament day would have caused such a response from so many people. I was simply happy that I had shot so well. The foursome I played with that day were absolutely wonderful! Actually, all three days I was priveledged to play with great ladies.
The amount of chatter this has gotten is remarkable! A great big Thank You to all those who gave words of encouragement and support.
I am not upset that I did not win. I am very happy for those that did win, in fact, I played with several of the ladies that finished in the top 10 and they are all great ladies, played well and deserved to win.
There are two things that bother me about this whole matter: 1- I was not contacted prior to the adjustments and, 2- I am now viewed as a sandbagger. The second statement bothers me most of all because I have always tried to be an honest person, treat others as I would like to be treated and look for the good in others.
I did speak personally with Eric on Thursday evening about this matter. I was told that the final decision rested with Christian alone. I did not speak with Christian as he was not present and was still over at the awards ceremony tending to matters there.
I’m tired of this matter being pursued, I find it upsetting. Nothing will change. I will still play golf and people will still speculate and whisper behind my back, that’s to be expected. It seems women are good at gossip whereas men confront one another and get their issues over with quickly.
There is nothing to be gained from this experience, except perhaps a lesson; that it is ALWAYS best to speak with a person when changes to their handicap are made – if for no other reason than shear courtesy. I trust that the Mesquite Gaming will deal with this matter fairly and I hope to be returning to the 2014 Mesquite Amatuer.
I think it’s time to drop it. The tournaments over. I think it was run rather well for the Woods flight anyways. About the only that would change the net scores is dropping players back a tee box or two. It’s amazing how few net under pars happen when you add yardage. The course rating goes up, but so do your scores. We had Super Senior shoot low net at George’s event because he was on the up tees when he normally plays from 6500 yards. He shot 71 as an 8 handicap. Put Jerry Hess on the back tees of Falcon Ridge that day and I’m pretty sure it would have ate his lunch. It was good playing with you Jerry! Nice round! It wouldn’t have happened if you played your normal yardage.
The decision to go with a 12 month low handicap is still a head scratcher to me. Seems like it was done just to protect “72” as a low net instead of being fair. Obviously my scores had me way out anyway and it didn’t effect me, but I can see how this will have honest golfers concerned about coming back to play. Sandbaggers will just adjust for next year.
Should be ” ESC” scores.
Hey Christian
Do we need to post our won tournament scores I believe at one time you said they would be posted for us but I have not heard anymore about it. So do we need to post them or will the tournament committee do that?
We will be posting the tournament scores. If you have posted a score already you will need to contact your association or club and delete the duplication. Thanks for the question.
Christian
Well, 3 rounds in the 110’s. as per every Mesquite Am I have participated in. But my HI used, is one that was established over a year ago. But I am forced to post ESQ scores, which do not reflect my actual scoring ability, do to previous HI. Max post of “8” I believe. So my 9’s, 10’s, 11’s, and yes 13’s – 15’s are posted at 8. So my HI will never reflect my actual scoring. 🙁
Palms at 6860 yds 72.9 rating, WOW Senior flight right ??? Open division isn’t even playing anything close to that length yardage. Looks like I will just bring the driver, 3 wood and putter that day, Add to that the expected 30-40 mph winds. Could be a monster.
Super Seniors, some moved out of the Hogan flight to the Sarazen flight, fyi only. Probably just spacing out the people. Same courses!
Correction, I see them now. I wasn’t looking correctly
Kerry, You are likely talking about the course rotation page. I don’t see any yardages on the pairings and starting tee page.
Yes they are up, but incorrect. Stadler senior men are playing from the whites, I thought it said in the course rotation. The yardage listed on the results page are from the blue, or maybe even the black. Total yards of 6860?
Actually I should thank Eric, I recognize his handiwork!
pairings are out, Thanks Christian
Hey Christian
I am no expert, but according to the Senior Men’s that I just looked at,
It appears if you were to move the 8.3 & 8.5 from Zoeller to Watson, and the 3 12.5’s from Stadler to Zoeller it would even the flights out better. But like I said, I am no export.
Hi Christian. I too do not want to be a bother, but I checked the handicap you posted for me wish is posted at 14.8. (My handicap is 16.6) It is about 2 different than my actual. I have every score card that I used in posting my handicap. Most of my rounds were witnessed by another person coming to the tournament. Is it that you dont believe me or did you adjust everyone’s number downward 2 strokes.
Thanks
Gary
Gary,
You are not a bother at all this is part of being a tournament director. To answer your question no we don’t just adjust you down two strokes. Here is what we found with your index and how we came to our decision of your tournament index.
We have two Gary Forszt golfers in Florida. One is at Deer Creek GC with a 13.3 index, but his last score is May 2012. The other is at Hollywood Are #019.
He established this record on February, and 16.6 is his low on that record, but he doesn’t even have 20 scores posted. His lowest differential on that record is 14.8.
Interestingly he has no tournament scores showing on his record.
Since the average between the two is about 14.8
That is how we came to your tournament index. We have to go off of the information that you have on your record and because Golfnet does not provide a 12 month low then we need to look at your differential on scores posted. If you do have any questions I will say again feel free to send them to us at sales@mesquitegaming.com or you can come see us at registration on Monday in the Showroom.
Christian
Food for thought, there are a minimum of 13 players that played last year and now have a HI at least 2 higher than when they played last year. This means their low for the year went up at least 2 strokes in less than a month if we are going by lowest in the last year.
Christian,
Just wondering if you got my emails I have sent regarding my handicap? It is a bit off. I don”t mean to be a bother just trying to correct it before I get there and George may need it for the skins game. George already said I was not getting all those strokes LoL!!
Todd Peltier
Todd,
I have got the e-mails working on it.
Christian
What is the website that will be showing tourney results for our friends and families back home to follow along with how we are doing?
Barry,
We are creating a widgit for the website right now. I will be a landing page that on the website that people can access. I think the players and the people following the tournament from their hometowns will like it.
Christian
Christian,
Do Mesquite am players have access to the Casablanca pool and amenities if we’re not staying there?
Access to the pool at the CasaBlanca is just for resort guests. The spa is open to the public.
Christian
Jeff,
Well said. I also think the lowest handicap in 12 months is even more equalizing than taking the May 15 update.
Leonard, if everyone has an accurate handicap then nobody has an advantage, right? Yes, they are getting more strokes than you, but, they will more than likely use every one of them and then some. That’s why it’s a handicapped event. If we were flighted and then they threw the handicaps out the window and played strait up then you would have a 12 shot advantage on them. It’s how you play to your handicap, not how this guy hasn’t teed off yet and he is getting 12 shots more than you are. The player that gets into the least amount of trouble, has the least amount of penalty strokes, putts the best and has a little luck of the bounce his way will win. It is what it is, but you still have to play your game.
Thankless job, huh Christian. If you need any help, please get in contact with me. My mornings are going to be quite open. HaHa.
Thanks Christian for all you hard work!
Leonard,
Have a look a the Mickelson flight…..try a 20 stroke difference.
P.S. I would rather have my handicap lowered and play in the Zoeller flight if allowed than have guys with a 11.9 stroke advantage on me. Christian can we do that. Give me a 12.8 handicap and drop me to the Zoeller flight?
Leonard,
You currently have around 100 players in the senior division and that does not warrant a 4th flight. It is just how registration went this year and we do have to keep the flights even numbers wise. If you would like to request to play down a flight you can e-mail us at sales@mesquitegaming.com.
Christian
Phil, the Watson flight for Sr. Men has a handicap spread of 7.1. The Zoeller flight only has a 4.1 handicap spread and my flight, the Stadler flight has a 12.2 handicap spread. The Watson and Zoeller flights are quite a bit more balanced, especially the Zoeller flight. That is why we need another flight to balance these spreads out.
Watson-7.1 spread
Zoeller-4.1 spread
Stadler-12.1 spread
You think this is balanced?
Leonard; All of the age groups have big differences in hdcps. You can always move up a flight and play where u wouldn’t have much difference
I am glad to see the list is out and I truly appreciate the gift of 2 strokes.
My handicap should be 29.4 not 31.4 Go ahead and knock to back to 29.4 and leave me a comp beer at the Casa Bar.
This will make my playing buddies happy.
Jim,
If we have made a mistake then you need to contact us directly at sales@mesquitegaming.com.
Christian
And since I play shorter tees in Men’s league here, my handicap is lower and the handicap point spread is 12-13 in my flight. I would have to shoot almost even par to have a chance with that large of a spread. Can’t another flight be added?
I cannot believe the Sr. Men’s Stadler flight has a 12.2 point spread on handicaps! This is too big of a spread. It looks like you are trying to keep an equal number of people in each flight, but a 12.2 handicap spread is too great. In my Men’s league here in Florida I do not have a chance of winning against guys with 20 handicaps when they have a better than average day and I hope these flights can be realigned before the tournament actually starts.
Disregard….took at while to update for some reason. But thanks for getting this done. 3 more days of work before i start the trek down to Mesquite. Can’t wait to meet everyone!!
Uh where exactly do you have the HDCP’s posted as your home page has not been updated i still show as of the 10th for participant list and yes i have refreshed and the course rotation still says tentative.
Christian,
Now that the handicaps have been posted, what do we do if we don’t think it is right?
Wendy,
If you have an issue please e-mail us at sales@mesquitegaming.com .
Christian
Patience…..
Hello all,
Flights are up and final course rotation for you to look at. Still a few more to look up but the majority are done. We appreciate your patience but we are really doing our due diligence verifying everyone. We look forward to seeing everyone in a week at registration.
E-mail is on its way out as well.
Christian
Daily segments Pacific Time
4AM till Noon MORNING
Noon till 8Pm AFTERNOON
8PM till 4AM NIGHT
hahahaha….1930 in my part now….lol
6PM here and still waiting.
It’s 4 pm in my part of the world. Anyone heard a anything about the flights ?
Christian…I have a torn ACL in right knee but am too stupid not to come and play. It doesn’t seem to hamper my swing (at least that’s what I keep telling myself) but walking on slopes and standing for very long is painful. Would I be able to get a handicap flag for my golf cart?
Jim
Jim,
You are a trooper. Just speak to the golf courses that you are playing and speak to the proshop about your injury and I am sure they will get you a handicap flag.
Christian
Andy, no one can sing ‘ay-yi-yi-yi’ like George!
Hey everyone we are finalizing flights and doing some peer review on some of the indexes but we are hopping to have flights up this weekend and an e-mail blast will be sent out to all of the participants. We at the Mesquite Amateur are looking forward to seeing everyone in just over a week.
Christan
Your missing it Andy, the more you drink the better I get. STMF
Oh Lord, George is going to sing ?? Thank God I’m not playing !! (Smile)
Christian, just pair me and shaun up daily. we can drink chiladas and I will sing to him all day. I’m a team player. haha. see everyone soon. STMF
Thanks Christian
Thanks Stan and Christian, so what I get from the rule is between holes I can listen to the device. The rule continues on to say;
A Committee will have to consider all available facts and circumstances in determining whether a player using an artificial device to listen to music or a broadcast has done so for a prolonged period such that the action might have assisted the player in his play.
There is no restriction on listening to music or other broadcast while practicing (whether on the practice ground or on the golf course, and whether by oneself or while playing with others), although club rules and disciplinary codes could apply in such circumstances. (New)
See I too can copy the rule, what I’m looking for is what is considered a prolong period, and there is no ruling on using it as a scorecard.
Shaun,
You can listen to musice while you practice on the range then in between holes you can listen to music but you cannot listen to musice while you are playing the golf hole during the tournament.
As for the keeping your scorecard on your phone the tournament does not have a problem with that. But I would refer you to the rule of measuring devices and using that during play as this would fall under that using a device during play:
Players are allowed to use devices that measure distance only. The use of devices that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play are not permitted, unless the additional feature that gauges or measures these conditions can be deactivated during competition. A player in breach of this rule will be subject to disqualification under Rule 14-3.
From ‘Decisions on the Rules of Golf’:
Decision 14-3/17
Player Listens to Music or Broadcast During Round
Q. A player uses a device to listen to music, a radio broadcast or any other type of broadcast during a stipulated round. What is the ruling?
A. Under Rule 14-3a, a player may not use any artificial device or unusual equipment that “might assist him in making a stroke or in his play.” Listening to music or a broadcast while making a stroke or for a prolonged period might assist the player in his play, for example, by eliminating distractions or promoting a good tempo. Therefore, the use of an artificial device to listen to music or a broadcast, whether or not through headphones, while making a stroke or for a prolonged period of time during a stipulated round is a breach of Rule 14-3. However, it would not be a breach of Rule 14-3 for a player to listen to a device briefly, for example, to obtain the results of another sporting event or traffic information, while walking between the putting green of one hole and the tee of the next.
Christian, What is the tournaments rule about listening to an ipod while playing in the tournament? I also use my Ipod as a digital scorecard. What are the tournament rules on this?
Shaun,
Stan was kind enough to put up the USGA rule addressing this.
Christian
It’s a shame that people actually work on their hcps for a yearly tourney! Some people have injuries and or health issues and to take the L.I for the last 12 months is not really fair. We all love to compete at whatever level we are at and to drop the hcps for each superb net round each day is fantastic, but to have both against you is really impossible,but I am still Looking forward to playing in my 1st year and the courses look awesome.
Matt,
If there is a health issue we do have people send in requests to be evaluated and we do take that into consideration with their tournament index. It is covered in the handicap policy under the “event info” tab on the main we page. Looking forward to having you participate in your first Mesquite Amateur.
Christian
For those of you having a problem bringing up event info and you are using windows explorer, try using firefox. I couldnt bring up event info either till I changed
My GHIN # is 8497888 & as of 5/15/13 my HCP Index is 22.9. I never received your email requesting an updated Hcp index.
George,
Thank you for the information. We will be verifying indexes today and we do have your GHIN # that you provided when you registered so we will get everything set for the event.
Christian
So today is HDCP verification day…so does that mean final course rotation and flight information will be up by the weekend?
Rob,
Yes we should have all that up by the weekend. Thanks!
Christian
Good morning. Nine days and I am on the way. Got a question. I have tried to open the “Event Info” tab on this web site and I get no response. All the other tabs seem to work fine. Is there a problem with the site or is my computer tired of working?? See ya in a few days!!
David,
I just tried pulling it up and it did pull up ok. I can e-mail you over the updated Rules and Regulations if that is what you are looking for.
Christian
I would recommend if anyone has any questions as to the low handicap 12 month system and unusual score adjustment system, go the website below for the SNGA and click on the results of each tournament. You will see that in most events you will find 1 or 2 golfers that are no more than 1 or 2 under par (the winner) and the rest of the field is over par. In our Majors most times, everyone is over par and the field is very tight giving everyone a chance to compete even after a 2 day event. I won the State Net Medalist last year with a net 4 over par for 2 days if that can answer questions about the system. In the SNGA, I have not seen a 59, 60, 61, 62, or 63 net score because in most cases in a system that works, that kind of scoring is almost impossible. When it does happen there needs to be an adjustment to protect the rest of the field. Give it a chance. I am not playing in my 7th Mesquite Amateur this year, I will be there to assist Eric and in answering your questions and trying to make it a good time for all. It is after all a great, fun event.
http://www.ghintpp.com/snga/TPPOnlineGolfer/Default.aspx
“the fellow named Eric ” is a pretty sharp cookie and IMHO is a great addition to the TC. Congrats on the rapid recovery from surgery, Eric
Christian,
I thought the fellow named Eric was a member of the TC….and he was contradicting what you had said. I take it he’s not part of the TC and i will therefore use my smartphone Golf GPS. Thanks for the clarification.
Rob
Rob,
Eric is a member of the TC and will be handling that but he did not see what is on our website so I wanted to clarify in the public forum so it did not confusing.
Christian
Eric,
Is this a local rule your are implementing for the tourney. Are you allowing DMD specific devices like a laser range rinder, skycaddie etc. As those too are not legal unles it is by local rule. Now if you are allowing one and not the other. Here is the flow chart from the USGA on the types of measuring devices that are allowed by local rule only. And it clearly states that mobile devices are allowed as long as the APP doesn’t do anything but measure distance and that the DEVICE is only capable of such things as weather and slope features by accessing the internet. I’m not arguing with you here….but if you’re allowing one type of device like an IGOLF GPS or GARMIN GOLFLOGIX.. but not allowing the same IGOLF GPS through a smarthphone is conflicting.
http://www.usga.org/uploadedFiles/USGAHome/equipment/DMD%20flowchartv1-3.pdf
Rob,
I did answer this question for you in a prior post. Here is the way the rule is written in our rules and regulations for the tournament:
Distance Measuring Devices
Players are allowed to use devices that measure distance only. The use of devices that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play are not permitted, unless the additional feature that gauges or measures these conditions can be deactivated during competition. A player in breach of this rule will be subject to disqualification under Rule 14-3.
Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
Christian
An analysis of Tournament Indexes by the USGA has shown that for the vast majority of players, the index will be higher than their regular index. Since your handicap index should be the best reflection of your potential ability, it is not a recommended means for a competition if the purpose is to be a fair competition. For those few that may perform better in competition, rule 10-3 of the handicap system takes that into account ….for those of you with an “R” after your index, that indicates your index has been reduced for exceptional tournament performance. An “M” after an index indicates that your handicap committee has modified your regular index….either up (because of a current medical consideration) or down to better reflect your ability.
GPS devices on smart phones are not legal distance measuring devices.
Jim, a player who shoots a net 63 on a course with a rating of 64.4 would not be adjusted. We look at unusual probabilities in comparison to the course rating, using the probability table in the USGA Handicap System manual. A score that is 1.4 strokes under the course rating is probable. Scores that have excessive improbability would be reviewd. Usually the red flag begins at 3 strokes below the course rating.
Christian, You commented earllier about individuals with year long averages that may have had medical exceptions. What conditions and what documentation would you need for those exceptions? When would that need to be submitted?
Rick,
You can submit medical and other exceptions to sales@mesquitegaming.com and we can take a look at them. It would be good to include docters letter for any medical issues for us to take a look at. Then we will contact the player and let them know what the decision will be.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Christian
Thanks, I will wait
Corrected:
Christian or ” Eric Yaillen”
Jim,
The website will be updated with the handicap policy and we will be sending out an e-mail when that is live. That will give you an answer to your scenario on adjustments. If it does not feel free to contact us.
Christian
Christian or Alex
I have a question about how you decide to adjust a person for an exceptional round
1. A golfer with a 30 handicap and a course handicap of 28 shoots a gross 91,net 63 at OASIS PALMER- Gold 64.4/106
Would he be adjusted?
2 20 handicap with a course handicap of 19 shoots gross 81 net 62 at OASIS PALMER- Gold 64.4/106
Would he be adjusted?
Christian,
I am reading through the blog and saw where our scores will now be posted automatically (great news). Is this for everyone or just those under GHIN?
Will it be posted for us under Golfnet?
Wendy,
the players with GHIN will be posted automatically for them along with state recognized associations and our friends in Canada. For Golfnet we will post them for you but we will contact Golfnet directly to do that.
Christian
I’ve found a lot more sandbaggers in the Pac-Am than Mesquite. They usually don’t last long from the peer pressure. Some people will do anything for a prize.
Kerry’s right. It’s the fun, beer, friends, beer, sunshine, beer, great food and beer. And if I don’t happen to hit myself in the foot with my driver and shoot a good scores, more fun. But like Kerry, my stories are about the one that got away.
See you in the desert.
I looked at a couple of flights from the Pac-Am which uses your lowest handicap during the year. I found that a +9 in the lower handicap flights would get you a top 10 finish and possibly a top 4. The higher handicap flights, looks like you’ll need to play better to finish high. Course management. Lay up? I guess we didn’t come this far to lay up! That will be apparent in my scores at least.
Christian,
Looking at the tentative course rotations,I see where in the super seniors devision,trevino flight,you have them playing Conestoga-silver tees.From these tees it has a course rating of71.0 course rating of 139 yardage of 6378 yards.Now the reason i’m concerned is there is a good chance i may be playing this on Thursday.The last flight in this devision is going to be very high handicaps,propably 20 plus. To me this is way to much course for this flight. I can see a 6 + hour round. I know some people will say it’s the same for every one in the flight. That’s not my point, it’sjust too much course for that handicap range.
Also, while i’m on here i want to voice my opinion on using low hanicap of past year.Myself, i don’t agree since you guys had 7 months last year to work on this. I submitted aq 21.2 handycapin Febuary and now i’m at 22.4,my low handicap for past 12 months is 19.2. So it looks like i’ll be losing 9 strokes over 3 days.
This will be my first year at playing the Masquite Amature and am really looking forward to it. I know you guy’s have a hard job trying to curtail the sand beggers, I
sure don,t know the answer.Back in the 90’s i played 8 years in the Dupont World amature now the world amature and got ate up by the sandbeggers,but kept going back.
To close I believe the low handicap for past year should have been done before people sent entry forms in. Then they could decide if they wanted to play under these rules.
I’m done crying, just looking forward to playing in the desert.
Fred,
Thanks for your post and comments. Yes the Trevino flight I would have you guys playing the copper tees which is one up from the Silver tees. Sorry for the typo. Once we do final handicap checks on May 15 we will be posting flights and course rotation for everyone to see. We look forward to having you at your first Mesquite Amateur.
Christian
so i would not even have a chance
Just a couple of points:
1. I think that changing what index to use at this point is not what was presented at registration, nor has it been past practice.
2. Using the low index for a twelve month period has it’s flaws as well. It may catch people year one however, after that it will only stop those that keep legitimate GHIN scores.
These are just comments and it doesn’t matter to me, I will enjoy the fellowship more than winning anyway. Trying to stop cheating is an unrealistic task. Best of luck, I’m going to have a blast..
Like i said…they take which ever is lower.
If you look at my history, you will see that I am obviously there for the fun. And if they took my Mesquite Am only scores, I would have a very High Mesquite Am HI, versus my actual HI.
Greg,
What the World am in myrtle beach does is this. Each year you submit your HDCP Index and they take which ever one is lower. For example your regular playing index is 5.5, your world am index is 4.3, they use the 4.3, or vice versa. It’s the best system for these kinds of tourneys. Now if people have a problem with first time players not having a mesquite am index then they could use your lowest index for the last 12 months for your first venture into the tourney. Once you’ve played in it once you now have a tournament index. It’s pretty simple and it works.
This will be my 10th Mesquite Am, if we were to use my tournament scores over those years, my handicap would probably be higher than the index I have right now. We would probably have issues with that format too. I think last years winning scores were acceptable, so I’m confident that Christian and the others who help, are getting a handle on dealing with the few people who come to the tournament with suspect handicaps. I think Karma comes into play eventually too 🙂
My phone doesn’t have a ” Give me a better swing app “, so I don’t use a smart phone, but that definitely is a good question.
This tournament is pretty much the highlight of my golfing year, so I’m eager to get there and see everyone!
So you goal right now, Barry, is to shoot to a +9 for your handicap. If you do that in your flight you probably will have a shot at placing and who knows, a top 4 finish if your lucky. Like I said before, even if your playing to your lowest handicap of the year right now, it should be extremely difficult to shoot to even net par for 3 days. Especially if you have Coyote Springs in your rotation. I haven’t broke 90 there yet. Of course I had a 10 on the last hole a couple of years ago. My goal is at least an 84 on that course for myself. Anything can happen on that course. It’s a great tough course. It’s getting closer to that time when we are hopefully grinding out those tough pars, throwing in a birdie or three, and making a few sand saves. It’s either get focused or start drinking, and I know some of you guys focus better with a buzz on. And if it doesn’t happen, just have fun anyway. I’d rather wake up early and go golfing than go to work anyway. I’m sure we all have more problems to worry about than our handicap. I know I have plenty of things to worry about here at home. It will be a nice week long get away. I need it. I’ve just got too many things going on around here right now. Hopefully I can forget about that and play golf.
Oh here we go.
Christian,
This question may have been asked and answered before. However what is the tournament policy on GPS devices, specifically on smart phones?
Rob,
Here is the rule on measuring devices for the tournament:
Distance Measuring Devices
Players are allowed to use devices that measure distance only. The use of devices that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play are not permitted, unless the additional feature that gauges or measures these conditions can be deactivated during competition. A player in breach of this rule will be subject to disqualification under Rule 14-3.
I also don’t blame the players themselves sometimes. I think that the course setup and yardage has a lot to do with scores shot. I’ve said it before that most players don’t play from the tees they should play from…especially high HDCP’rs. They tend to play from one up from the tips at their home course and their caps are based off that. They then come to these kinds of events and play courses way shorter than what they normally play and subsequently eat them alive. It’s such a tough thing, running events like this. However, there are ways to make it more fair for everyone.
Jeff,
UH…there was a guy who won this event a couple years ago with a net 59 in the final. And i think last year in the final there were 25 people that shot there cap or better. And you see guys that shoot there cap or better in the 3 rounds and not get adjusted and some do. The USGA has it as simple as it can be put…for someone to do that would happen once in 56 years based on 20 rounds per year which is the average number of rounds played by “avid golfers” in the U.S. I am a true believer of the using a tourney index…the world am has been using it for the last few years and it works. They DQ like crazy….they DQ’d a 14 year old girl 2 years ago. The TC has to have the courage to DQ, they have to ask themselves….how many potential players do we lose every year when they look at our website and see the scores that are being shot in the tourney rounds and then in the final and the potential player just says…”i have no chance”. And for a 3 or 4 hdcp looking at the scores shot in the final….he would have to shoot a gross 69 to even have a sniff….that would never happen.
Jeff,
Its pretty simple really. Lets say “Sandbagger A” has a fake handicap of 13 that he’s has been inflating but is really playing to an 8. He has an 8 in his history though from last summer.
I have a legitimate, honest index of 11.3 but due to the lowest 12 month index rule, now the tourney is giving me an index of 8.3. If I play to my current legitimate index of 11.3, I’m giving up 3 strokes a day, so 9 strokes over the 3day tourney to the sandbagger.
An index is based on current potential anyway, so the USGA says my current potential is 11.3. But I’m going to have to play to my past potential which was 8.4.
I’d like an explanation of how this is supposed to even the field. I just don’t see it. I’m going to come out to Mesquite and have fun anyway, but looks like I’m at a 9 stroke disadvantage before I tee up the first ball. Guess I better just realize I’m going to finish in the bottom half of my flight and enjoy the pretty scenery.
Realistically there shouldn’t be anyone below net par for this event after 3 days. That being said, there will be those that come in under net par. If there is anyone that shoots a net 59 you can probably count on your name being at the bottom of the score sheet instead of the top. I don’t think the “I shot the round of my life” excuse is going to fly this year. One thing about using your lowest is that this reflects your potential. It might not be your potential right now, but you do have that kind of potential hopefully at some point. Hey, I’m an 8.7 right now with a 6.2 low. It is what it is. Good thing we have 3 weeks or so to work on the game. I’m going to need it. But I just don’t seem to have the desire or the time this year to work on it. I’m going to show up and play anyway.
I have to differ with Barry on the sandbagger playing closer to his handicap. The sandbagger always has enough strokes up his sleeve no matter what handicap he has to play to. As long as I’m honest about turning my ESC’d scores in and posting them with the correct slope and course ratings, that’s all I can control. We’re all in the hopes that everyone else does the same. If everyone does, then we are all on a level playing field. May the man or woman with the hottest putter and wedge win.
David the participant list thats up now is from 2011
Jim,
You and David need to go directly to http://www.mesquiteamateur.com and look at the participant list sometimes when you go through google or other search engines old info will be there. All participant list has been updated on the webpage.
Christian,
I have a question on my index my card show I am a 11.7 but you have me as a 13.5? are you adjusting for the courses in Mesquite or how I have played before.
just wondering.
thank you and cannot wait to see you and everyone soon.
David.
Christian,
While I have my own suggestions for you about how to do handicaps, they would be self serving as are most you have received in these posts.
The fact that most folks play in different climates and on courses which fail to compare with Mesquite means their assigned handicap is not likely to compare with one attained on those different venues.
The courses I play year round are not as high quality as Mesquite and I usually play better on your great fairways and perfect greens.
I am ready to go with anything you and your capable bunch decide to do. It is nice that you take and answer all questions.
See you in three weeks
R Davis is definately on the right track as an alternative the lowest handicap index over the past year. The World Am (I played in 20 of them) adjusts handicaps on a daily basis, and is completely unafraid to DQ any player that scores well below their handicap. The Tournament Committee should strongly consider this alternative.
LOOKS TO ME THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEM WITH HANDICAPS
GOOD OR BAD TAKE THE LOWEST INDEX FOR THE YEAR MAY TO MAY
I AM SORRY FOR THE PLAYERS THAT LIVE IN THE NOTH, THAT CAN NOT IN THE WINTER THATS CALLED ( THE RUB OF THE SNOW ). 1 IF A PLAYER SCORES LOWER THAN HIS HANDICAP CUT HIS HANDCIAP FOR THE NEXT DAY THE NUMBER OF STOKES HE OR SHE WERE BELOW. 2 IF THEY SCORE LOWER THE NEXT DAY CUT THEM SAME AGAIN
IF THEY SCORE LOWER OR SHOOT THE SAME SCORE THE LAST DAY ( THEN D Q THEM ). BECAUSE THEY CHEATERS ANT WAY
Christian, I applaud your effort to minimize sandbagging and using realistic handicaps No different than the Pac Am so seems fair to me
Robert
Have to say, I’m not happy about this decision. I play and keep an honest handicap. I got to my lowest ever handicap back in September 8.4, but my current handicap is 3 strokes worse and its an honest handicap. I feel like I’m three strokes down going into the event as I’m currently an 11.3. I was a 10.9 going in to the Mesquite Am last year with my May 15th 2012 revision. And I played to that handicap with shooting 88, 90 and 96 in the tournament rounds. So my game is pretty much in the same shape that it was last May, yet I’ll be scored based on how I played at my best in September. Any sandbagger will still be playing with a handicap closer to his real ability than I will be.
Palm Springs Am uses your lowest handicap in the last 12 months. The PAC-AM also uses your lowest in the last 12 months. The World Am uses your tournament index or your handicap as of August 15th and takes the lower of the two. I’m in Ohio. Anyone from the northern parts that had snow covered courses are at a bit of a disadvantage. It doesn’t mean that you don’t have a chance to win. But if you go into the event with that mindset, then I guess you might be defeated already. Disadvantaged? Yes. But don’t count me out just yet. I never know what I might slop in. Have fun and play hard!
Christian, thanks for the well wishes, and there is no animosity in my comments – just an informed series of thoughts. The seven of us from Homestead, FL are ready to go, and looking forward to the trip.
Let me mention one other thing. Certainly the Tournament Committee for your event can make any local rule as you deem necessary, and all of the participants would have to accept those rules, but this one seems to be ludicrous. Without having talked to anyone in the field on this subject, I would think that there are going to be many participants that are going to be outraged with this edict if there has been a wild variation in their handicap index in the past 12 months either upward or downward.
Christian, I can say this without any bias, given the fact that I am unable to play this year, but using the lowest handicap of the past year is a ridiculous notion. I am the Handicap Chairman for my club and have been twice certified as such by the Florida State Golf Association, and clearly the most recent handicap index before the event must be used. I’m sure that there must be some reasoning behind your decision, and I will read your email on the subject carefully, but I completely disagree with your decision. Just in this past year before my hip replacement surgery, my handicap had gone from 12 to 17 and had just gone back to 13 before I had to quit playing golf. Now, if my current index were still 17, and you made me play at 12 for the tournament, I would be jumping up and down, pitching an unholy fit, simply because it is my belief that this decision runs contrary to the GHIN system, and to USGA rules.
Andy,
Thanks for your post. Yes the e-mail will address people with medical issues and the tournament would take that into consideration on an individual basis so that will be addressed in the e-mail. The e-mail will go out to the participants for the event but I will be more than happy to send you a copy as well. I hope your rehab is going well and we look forward to seeing you in 2014.
Christian
Christian
I found my name on the List of Participants (#129-Super Sr.), but I don’t see it listed in the Flight information. ????
Duane Smith
My first year. 1. Should not change rules after accepting entry forms. Perhaps, make effective next year. No point in debating reasons, it should be self explanatory. 2. One year to an older player may impact handicap index more than younger player. (I am in upper Master flight).
All the more reason to have a tournament index…if you’ve played in the tourney before you have an index…this totally iliminates bagging in repeat participants….you know the guys that shoots under their cap during a tournament. I don’t hesitate to say that 90 percent of participants in this and most events like the world am are repeat players. I agree that using the lowest cap of your last 12 months is unfair for people that live north and have winter to deal with…i just played my second round of the year today. And for all new players in the event maybe using their lowest cap of the last 12 months is a good idea until they have at least one tour at the mesquite am where they can establish a mesquite am index.
I’m not sure I posted my scores from last years tournament. Is this a problem?
James,
Yes you should go back and post those scores from last years event as you should be posting all scores when you play. You can contact your golf association and they can help you post those scores correctly. Note that this year the tournament will be posting all tournament scores for all of the participants. Great question!
Christian
Christian this is interesting news. For a player like myself it takes me out of the tournament before it starts. I’m sure there are a lot of other people like me out there as well that this will effect. I live in a city that has snow 4 months out of the year so when I come to mesquite I am lucky to 10 rounds before the tournament starts. So naturally my handicap is higher in May than in October. This is for the simple reason that I play 25% of my yearly rounds before mesquite, and 75% of my rounds after. I know that this blog has talked about that kind of index history should be viewed as someone who is a sandbagger, or padding their index in preparation for the tournament, but I don’t think that is the case. I think this rule will only punish those who have an ever changing handicap. A handicap should have an ebb and flow to it. This offers no reward to those who have an honest index. The person who is always the same is the person who should be looked at. I think it is also inappropriate to make this decision after people have signed up for the tournament with other rules in place. If the tournament decides to go in this direction it is my opinion that it should be for next year giving people notice and time to decide if this is the tournament for them. I welcome others thoughts. On a side note, I love this tournament for the right reasons. I come down with my dad, brother in law and close friends to see and have fun with friends I have made throughout the years at this place. Golf is secondary to me at this event. I just think this new rule punishes the wrong people.
Ryan,
Thanks for your post and comments. We will be sending out an e-mail blast to all of the players explaining how it will work this year. We will be taking the low index from June 1, 2012 to May 15, 2013 so it will take into account the golf season before and after winter. We understand it is something different from what we have done in the past but we feel this will help the tournament moving forward. If after receiving the e-mail anyone has any questions or concerns they can contact us at the tournament at sales@mesquitegaming.com.
Christian
Christian,
Do you mean the lowest for the year or for the last 12 months? Seems to me the handicap site only shows from Jan. 1. I know it’s been talked about but it seems a little un fare to our friends coming down from the north.
John,
You can go back past January 1 to look at the index history. Everyone will be playing from the low index of the last 12 months so their June 1 of 2012 to May 15 or 2013. We will be sending out an e-mail blast to all participants explaining how the tournament will handle the indexes. Once we send that e-mail out it will give some more explanation to how it will be handled.
Christian
Do we have any news as of yet if we are using the lowest handicap as of the last 12 months or the current handicap for the May 15th revision? Vegas Jack had a good point, but, if there is someone that is less than honest about the way he or she posts their scores it isn’t going to matter. My question to that is, what is the policy for those that get caught cheating the handicap system for failing to post “T” scores, especially the exceptional rounds when they are common knowledge for all to view on the internet? Not very smart by the way. I see there is a code of conduct policy in place that could get you a DQ if the tournament committee deems it necessary. Is this part of that code of conduct?
Jeff,
We will be using the low 12 month for the tournament this year. We will be sending out an e-mail to all of the players hopefully this week explaining how it will all be handeled moving forward. The tournament will be posting all of the scores for the participants for this years event so those will be posted acurately. See you guys in under a month.
Christian
Christian,
When do you need to know about handicap changes? Mine seems to be going down for some reason. I only played one game.
Christian,
LOL….hard to be patient when you’ve been cooped up in a winter wonderland for the last 5 months….lol
Well we’re just a little over a month away from the start of the event. I’m sure everyone is as excited as my friends and i are to get to the desert and have a hockey sock full of fun. So speaking of fun and excitement, Christian are there any new announcements forethcoming regarding the event?
Rob,
Patience…..I know you guys are all excited and we will keep feeding you guys annoucements leading up to the event. Just over a month away and we are looking forward to seeing everyone.
Christian
This is to answer Barry Johnston. Like I said Barry, no formula is perfect, but low handicap for the past 12 months cuts out a lot of the nonsense. If you were playing better in the summer last year, in Mesquite hopefully it will be warm as it is every year and the weather should not be a factor because those resilient bones and muscles should be at their full potential. What we try to do is use the handicap that reflects your best potential, not your worst.
The same can be said for morning golf vs later day or afternoon golf. Some people play way better when they don’t have to wake up at dark- thirty in the morning to play golf and others play better at dark-thirty in the morning.
Playing worse in the winter (or not at all) is normal and summer handicaps are better for most golfers in the nation.
Lastly, you are right. You will never stop a cheater and the cheater will always find a way to circumvent any system. If they have a need to feel superior and cheat to get that Calaway gift card, they can have it.
do I need to bring my RCGA handicap card from my pro at my home course, or is it fine to refer you to the RCGA website?
Michael,
It never hurts to bring a copy with you to the tournament. We will be verifying online but if we have any questions we will contact you or the association directly. Thanks!
Christian
Christian,
Is there a number and name of the handicap chairman for the event? I’ve got few questions to ask, just not on here.
Jeff,
Feel free to contact me and I can put you in contact with Eric Yaillen with the SNGA.
Christian
Thanks, Christian, that’s good to hear. I hope we get up to around the 90 mark like we’ve had in the past. The more the merrier.
It’s a bit of a let down that there is only 28 players signed up in the 49 and under divisions. Is it just that you haven’t updated the website in a while?
Jeff,
There have been more. I was out of the office a couple of days last week. There will be an updated list up the 49 and under is up to 49 registered so far.
Christian
VegasJack,
I can see some merits of the system you talk about but it seems like it would be just as easy for a true sandbagger to circumnavigate. Cheaters are going to find a way to cheat.
What you propose also seems awfully punishing to those in colder clims that are just now beginning their golf season. If they truly keep an accurate handicap then they are behind the eight ball if forced to play with an index that is based on what they had at the peak of last golf season.
Christian,
Will there be printed scores for that day as last year after the dinners for some of us do not have lap tops with us.
I like when you have the scores printed up for us to take.
but I do like what you have announced.
cannot wait.
Yes we will still have print outs of every flight at the dinners at the front on stage and in the back of the CasaBlanca Events Center. The online checking will be in addition and a lot faster than previous years.
Christian
The very best system I have seen (keeping in mind no system is perfect) is the one we use in Southern Nevada. You get the low handicap you had for the last 12 months or in the case of a real sandbagger, your unusually low two best tournament scores.
This really stops the nonsense for those of us who play 50 to 75 tournament rounds a year. In a once a year event with folks coming from all over the place, you really need handicap volunteers that run every players history of handicaps for the last 12 months and the low # is what is used. Not what they are on May 15th!
If you find a player (like I did last year) that shoots a tournament score of 74 and 75 in a two day event in his hometown in February, then proceeds to post exactly 22 scores over the next 2 months in the high 80’s low 90’s, goes from a 7.8 to a 12 for the Mesquite Amateur and the Pac-AM …. my friends you have the essence of a true sandbagger. You cannot compete with people when you are spotting them 3 strokes a day, 9 total for 3 days and expect to win, when they are actually better golfers than you are and you are giving them strokes.
Yes it is fun, yes it is about camaraderie, yes it is about the event, but first and foremost is is a tournament/golf competition. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Good luck boys and girls!
For those of you who haven’t read Christian’s post under handicap questions It is great news. For those of you who aren’t familiar with SNGA here is a link to what they did in Vegas.
http://www.ghintpp.com/snga/TPPOnlineScoring/Pairings.aspx?id=149
QUOTE ” christian says:
April 2, 2013 at 4:43 pm
The Mesquite Amateur is very excited to announce our partnership with the Southern Nevada Golf Association (SNGA). They will be handling all of the scoring and monitoring of handicaps before and during the event. The tournament is very excited to be working with the SNGA and we think it will only enhance what the tournament has been working on with scoring and handicaps.
We will also be implementing better score tracking on the Mesquite Amateur website so friends and family can track their favorite player from home. Players will be able to check their scores through the website during the tournament to see where they stand. We think the players will really enjoy it.
In addition all of the players scores will be posted for them from the tournament. These are just a few of the upgrades the players can expect from the scoring and handicap side of the tournament.
Great news. They did a stellar job in the Vegas World amateur and it was nice to have your scores automatically posted. For those of you who aren’t familiar with SNGA here is a ling to what they did in Vegas.
http://www.ghintpp.com/snga/TPPOnlineScoring/Pairings.aspx?id=149
This sounds Great Christian. So now I won’t have to post my scores and worry that I put in the wrong slope or course rating.
Where will you post that Christian?…will you send an email to participants or place it on the website somewhere?
The Mesquite Amateur is very excited to announce our partnership with the Southern Nevada Golf Association (SNGA). They will be handling all of the scoring and monitoring of handicaps before and during the event. The tournament is very excited to be working with the SNGA and we think it will only enhance what the tournament has been working on with scoring and handicaps.
We will also be implementing better score tracking on the Mesquite Amateur website so friends and family can track their favorite player from home. Players will be able to check their scores through the website during the tournament to see where they stand. We think the players will really enjoy it.
In addition all of the players scores will be posted for them from the tournament. These are just a few of the upgrades the players can expect from the scoring and handicap side of the tournament.
363 participants so far. How does that compare to the cut off line for early entry to last year. I see that’s as of the 28th so i will assume there were a lot more by the 31st….still under 30 for the 49 and under crowd…yikes
Rob,
We go a lot of registrations over the weekend that we are getting processed then we will put another update up. We are pacing about the same as last year and we had 600 for the 2012 event. Registerations are still rolling in and we appreciate the continued support!
Christian
Should have some big news to report today about scoring and a new partnership to assist with handicaps and upgrades for friends to track thier favorite players during the tournament.
I have my scores posted as soon as I get home.
which I hate to think the Mesquate is over.
I am just waiting for that day when Iam on the plan taking off.
see you all soon.
You post your own scores to your applicable association.
It’s been a couple of years since I played mesquite. Do you post your own tournament scores or does the committee post them?
I am with you Dave.
If I see this kind of play going on I will portect the field too.
Have not seen it in any groups I have played with but you never know.
Thanks for the advise.
I’ve read most of the threads on the subject of sandbagging here. And have seen the claims of Christian trying to stop it. But less we forget that it is each and everyone’s job to Protected the Field. Christian can’t do it by himself, and or the committee. If you play with someone in your flight (super sr. 14 hdc.) and one of your playing partners shoots gross 74. If you don’t believe its a round of a lifetime. It is your responsibility to protect the field. And same with the Rules.
Lets make this year a great year for all players, New one’s and returning ones.
I know one thing, I’m not a sandbagger. At last years Mesquite Am I shot 88, 90, 96. Had one or two blow up holes each day. I finished 18th in my flight. The flight winner went 88, 83, 84. I didn’t find that out of the realm of believeability. I fell like if I had the potential to shoot those same scores.
Looking forward to being back in May. I’m going to have fun regardless.
looks like the list has been updated…thanks Christian
Christian,
Thought you were gonna update the participant lists last week? I remember you saying that you got a ton of sign ups when you were at one of the golf shows?
thanks!
it’s the admin number. It’s been cold up here giving me brain freeze.
Michael,
here is how I do this, I hope this helps.
What is your current Handicap Index?11.7
What is your GHIN # or Handicap #?12198626
Where is your handicap established??
Chicago District Golf Association
I understand the Handicap Index. My index is 13.8, but on the form to register, it asks for GHIN as well, i believe. I am a player who tracks my handicap through the RCGA-OGA out of a course in Toronto, which would be identical to the USGA.
I guess I am just confused on what to put in the boxes on the tournament entrance page.
Thanks so much!
m
what’s the difference between GHIN and handicap index?
Im coming down from Canada
Michael,
GHIN is the system the USGA uses to track amateur handicaps. Most state associations utilize it as their tracking system. Others use their own which are still accepted by the tournament. Once you have an established handicap with GHIN or what ever tracking system they utilize you are given a handicap index which is then used to determine your course handicap by using the slope and rating of the tee boxes you play to give you an accurate amount of strokes for the course you are playing.
Christian
Pace has never really bothered me. I mean I don’t wish to be out there for 6 hours but theres always worse places you could be. I guess for the most part I have always been paired with great partners. Sometimes when I feel the pace is getting slow in front of us I will walk to my next shot so that I am slowing myself down and not rushing to the next shot in my cart. Whatever you want us to do though I am in agreement. Last year at Conestoga was slow and hot, but we did play it from all the way back. Had a great time though cause the drink cart stayed stocked. STMF
I always keep my pace of play a 5 hour round is good with me more time to drink in the club house.
Let us know the plan Christian I will keep my end moving.
thank you for all you do for us.
Going back to the regular tee’s will speed up play. Mid handicap players are not meant to play back tee’s. This only favor’s longer hitters, they hit the fairways just as often as shorter hitters. Back tee’s equal more shots to the green, which means more time, which means less enjoyment.
Christian,
Thanks, I appreciate that. Last year, one of the problems was people not hitting provisional tee shots when their first tee shot was marginal. One day, the same guy came back to re tee 3 times. Thanks for looking into this. Looking forward to being there in May.
Ray
Are there any plans to address pace of play issues? I expect to play 5 hour rounds in a tournament like this but last year we had 5 1/2 hour rounds that were approaching 6 hours one day. Don’t know if there were too many people on the course or what happened. Not that slow in years past. Hard to play decent golf that slow. Thank goodness for the good company!
Ray,
Thanks for the post. Yes we will be looking at this. The golf course staff will be more active at all golf courses talking to groups that are falling behind their position. We will also be addressing the players as they need to help each other to keep pace of play up as well. It needs to be a team effort by players and staff to keep it moving.
Christian
I changed the site where I keep my handicap. How / when do I notify the event officials of the new site?
Gary,
You can just e-mail us at sales@mesquitegaming.com with any changes to registration and we can get those done and conirm that we received it.
Christian
I can see were everyone is coming from, my home course is the Hilton Indian Lakes CC. and play from the gold slope 127 rating 70.5 which is 6400 yards my INDEX is a 12 right now plus do not aways play this course. My golf league plays St Andrews Golf Course each Monday but only play 9 holes but there white tees are 6400 yards slop 120 and rating 70.5 with more trees then my home course Indian lakes.
last year 2012 I got killed and this is a 12 index?
27 98 84.0 27 28 103 89.0 27 21 92 79.0 21
and no better in 2011
12 86 72 18 16 90 76 16 28 100 86 27
better in 2010 but still ended near the bottom!
(16) 93 / 79.0(18) (11)88 / 74.0(13) (5)84 / 70.0(7)
I would love to know were my game goes in Mesquite.
as you can see I have one round were I shot my index, no sand bagger here!!!
I come for the fun the fellow ship the drink and cigars most of all I get 6 days away from the wife to do what I love to do!!
97 more days till Vegas and we all can talk about it! cannot wait!!!
Ron,
We all know the frustration when we’re blind sided by HDCP instead of the hidden bunker. I’m a mid-HDCP who’s been lowering his HDCP almost every year. One thing I liked last year was that the mid-HDCP were moved back on some of the courses. Not being a long hitter, I found that some of the bombers didn’t do as well when they had to hit longer quality second shots. (besides, it gives me more time to scramble) I found my flight more competative because of this. Of course some complained because of the higher scores but it’s all relative to the others in the flight.
Golf is a game of honor. Unfortunately all the rules are designed to make it equal and not to catch cheaters. It’s unfortunate the there are always some that try to avoid the rules in golf and life.
Kerry, we appreciate you shooting over you HDCP to make it easier on others. At least you party well.
See you in the desert.
Oh, sorry Kerry. Didn’t mean any disrespect, first Ceasar is on me! This is the biggest conversation on the board so far. That’s awesome. At the end of the day just like everyone says, i’m there to be with my buddies who are spread out accross my great country who i don’t see very often as i’m in the military and have been posted to the other side of the country. This is the one time a year that we get together and have more than a few “pops”, play some practice rounds together and enjoy the week. I just hate the feeling that as a low hdcp i would have to shoot under par gross to even have a sniff and i don’t think i’m alone in that feeling. I’m a competative guy by nature and just like most people i like to think i have a chance, am i crazy to think that? And as Christian told me personally, that they are investigating some new methods to crack down on the bagging, therefore i cannot wait to here what will be implemented.
Christian
Again, Sorry.
Kerry
Actually Rob,
I am the only Kerry That makes Posts here.
Senior Mens Division 2, Floyd Flight
22 KING, KERRY 29 29 110 86 25 26 112 87 23 21 105 83 327 27 256 28
Stan,
Well thanks for the copy and paste tutorial from the USGA handbook…lol. But i’m not sure what your point is…..are you agreeing or not? If the worry is that first timers should be worried about…well i stated that exact same thing in an earlier post. However the vast majority of players in these tournaments are return players….and most newbies come as friends of repeat players. The world am has gone down in number so much over the years that i don’t hesitate to say for one second that 95% are multi year players. I truly believe that tournament index works far better than going by somebody just saying their HDCP is x. Especially if logistically it’s impossible to verify home course slopes and ratings and thus adjusting people accordingly to the courses level of difficulty that they will play during the tourney.
Sorry Kerry….there is a Kerry female that makes alot of posts on here as well….lol
I looked at the course rotation for the woman and it shows that you played from the jade tees which according conestogas scorecard shows it as 5017yds. I’m not doubting you they may have adjusted where the actual blocks were that day. Just going by what they had on there official course rotation for 2012. I don’t know if you know this or not but your scores are not on the results list from last year either.
I see where you got mistaken info. You took it that “Kerry” was a female. And just looked at the course rotation for last year. Wrong answer. “Kerry” played in the senior Men’s division. Falcon Ridge Silver Tees, Conestoga Silver Tees, & Oasis-Canyons White Tees.
Having a tournament index is a universal idea for these types of tournaments but provides advantages to new players who have not participated in said event before. Therefore, making inequitable the very issue that they purport to be equitable. additionally, resort courses tend to have their slope ratings exaggerated.
Every golf course receives both a USGA Course Rating™ and USGA Slope Rating® for each set of tees that is rated. The rating established for the scratch golfer is known as the Course Rating. There is also a rating for the bogey player known as the Bogey Rating™ . This Bogey Rating is not normally published but is used to determine a Slope Rating. The Slope Rating is an evaluation of the relative difficulty of a course for players other than scratch. The USGA Course and Slope ratings are then calculated and certified by the authorized golf associations before they are issued to the club. These ratings are vital in calculating a person’s handicap for that particular course (Course Handicap).
A Handicap Differential is computed from four elements: adjusted gross score, USGA Course Rating, Slope Rating, and 113 (the Slope Rating of a course of standard difficulty). To determine the Handicap Differential, subtract the USGA Course Rating from the adjusted gross score; multiply the difference by 113; and divide the resulting number by the Slope Rating. Round the final number to the nearest tenth.
A player’s Course Handicap is determined by multiplying a Handicap Index by the Slope Rating of the course played and then dividing by 113. The resulting figure is rounded off to the nearest whole number (.5 or more is rounded upward).
A “Course Handicap” is the USGA’s mark that indicates the number of handicap strokes a player receives from a specific set of tees at the course being played to adjust the player’s scoring ability to the level of scratch or zero-handicap golf. For a player with a plus Course Handicap, it is the number of handicap strokes a player gives to adjust the player’s scoring ability to the level of scratch or zero-handicap golf. A Course Handicap is determined by applying the player’s Handicap Index to a Course Handicap Table or Course Handicap Formula. A player’s Course Handicap is expressed as a whole number. The result of any conditions of the competition, handicap allowance, or competition from a different USGA Course Rating that changes a Course Handicap is considered to be the Course Handicap.
A “Course Handicap Table” is a chart that converts a Handicap Index to a Course Handicap based on the Slope Rating for a specific set of tees.
Here is a copy and paste of 2012 scores, with ESC:
TI 5/31/12 105 68.8/124 33.0 Oasis-Canyons
TI 5/30/12 112 71.0/139 33.3 Conestoga
TI 5/29/12 110 69.7/135 33.7 Falcon Ridge
Sorry Rob,
Don’t know where you got your info. Did not play from the jade tees. Every yardage at the courses played was at least 6000.
Kerry,
i see you were a 20.5. Now if you’re saying you usually play courses at 6000-6200, you have established a HDCP playing that yardage and the associated slope and rating at that yardage for that course(s). I bet you didn’t play 6200 yd courses in your flight in mesquite. So in theory and more over what usually happens in higher hdcp flights and the winners or guys/gals that shoot mid 60’s net eat those courses for lunch simply because they are not playing the tees/yardages in the tourney that they play from at home. The first course you played was at conestoga from the jade tees…that yardage is 5017, so you played a course 1000+yds less than what you established your hdcp on, and i bet your were not adjusted 5-7 strokes lower before playing like you should have been. This is a problem and is exactly what i’m talking about. Now who’s fault is that…is it yours by not playing the correct tees on your home course….because it’s obvious that your cap is based off playing much longer courses at a higher slope and rating than you play in the tournament but your cap isn’t adjusted. This is where a tournament index would help as well.
That would be these. I am a 22.4 HI. But play at about 30 HI for the tournament. 100’s & 110’s. But when I play these courses at any other time, I shot 90’s & a couple of times less than that. And yes, I count ALL my shots.
and what yardages do they put you at in your flight in mesquite?
When I have a choice of what Tee Box to play from, I don’t always choose White. I look at the Yardage. And try to play from about 6000-6200 yards. So at some of the courses I play, that would be the tips.
haha…well there’s a simple solution to that as well. Having read what you wrote..it would seem the flight that played the courses you mentioned and drew the “dream draw” were not adjusted to match the rating of those courses. Not adjusting them does not protect the field right? And i’m talking about adjustment before they even play the first round if they know the rating is so low….compared to the home course they aquired their USGA hdcp. But you are right by saying it is a nightmare and when you don’t have the personnel to verify home course slopes and ratings and from what tee every score entered was played on it becomes very difficult. As well i’m sure the guy who ends up shooting the net 65,66,67 does not play the up front tees on his home course but when he comes to the mesquite am or world am, the committee assumes that they play from the senior tees and places everyone off of those tee boxes and these guys eat them up. There’s more ways to sandbag than to have a false hdcp. I don’t think this is a sensative topic at all, at the end of the day it’s just a discussion on how to make things better, wouldn’t you agree. Cheers brother and i can’t wait to meet you.
I know Rob, I was making light of very tense topic. We all agree that their is sandbagging at all these events. Every tourney director and their staff have the horrible job of protecting the field and protecting the tourney numbers. Its a catch all of making everyone happy. And a lot of people look at peoples scores and think they are sandbagging without looking at the slope and rating of a golf course. Some of the divisions play courses here that the rating goes as low as 64. If that person shoots net 66 he realistically has not broken net par, but if someone looks at a computer screen and sees 66 he starts screaming sandbagger. If a senior at this event got the right draw and shot net 66, net 68 and net 67 people would look and say he is net 15 under for the tourney and he must be a bagger, but in reality he played both Oasis courses and Falcon Ridge and never broke net par because the rating was 64.4, 66.6 and 67. I know thats just an example of what could happen and I do know theres plenty of “career” rounds played at some of these events but I think overall most tourney directors toss and turn with these decisions. Just my opinion. Hope all is well with everyones winter and see you in 99 days. STMF
George,
That’s the whole point of having a Mesquite am index. It’s not just to use an index that you’ve established playing this tourney. It uses which ever is LOWER…you mesquite index or your submitted index. And if for some reason your USGA index goes through the roof in one year…say from an 10 to a 15 and your mesquite index is a 10 they would split the difference to a 12.5. Those cases would be rare to see someone go up 5 index points in a year. The whole point is to protect the field
I would love to see us use a Mesquite Handicapp. The problem is mine is probably higher than my normal handicapp. Seems I have a couple high 90’s and a 102 to my credit. And before anyone asks yes I ESC’d them prior to putting them in. But you know what in all those high round I had a blast. Maybe this year I’ll slow down on the Modelo Chilada’s and Duck Farts at the lounge. Nope probably not. Can’t wait to see you all. 99 days and wheels up. STMF
Then of course you have folks like me who enter at a 20-22, and play as an over 30. Just can’t play tournament golf.
Ron,
This issue comes up every year. Fortunately it only seam to be a couple of people each year. Most times they don’t come back. I’ve had several discussions with Christian over the years on things that could be done. Christian has looked closely at how other tounaments are handling this issue. And is working with golf associations on some options. One of the main problems is amount of staff resources he has to do all the verification, postings, etc.
I know your frustration with the sandbagers. I’ve had a 15 HDCP shoot three 79’s and though he was re-rated twice it didn’t help. I’ve met guys that work at golf course and don’t post their free rounds. Seen 20 internet entries in one month change handicaps by 4 strokes. people that don’t post their tournament rounds.
Saw Christian in Denver Saturday. He said he’s processed about 130 entries so far. Can hardly wait. doctor says I should be able to swing a club in less than a month.
Ya i get that it’s a tough job, i really do and that’s why there are these charts and ratios out there to make it easier to do the job. That’s why the application of a tourney index is a great idea. If you’ve played in the tourney at least once you have established a mesquite index and every year after that you keep adding to it. So when you sign up each year and you submit your usga/rcga hdcp index, the tourney will take which ever is lower for your tourney index. This really levels the playing field. The only people you would have a hard time with is newbies. For example, somebody has been in the tourney for 5 years, he enters every year as an 8 but somehow seems to shoot at or below his cap every year all three rounds then shoots 4-5 shots under his/her cap in the final. Therefore his cap should be adjusted naturally to about a 4 for next year no matter what he enters as. The world am in myrtle has been using this method for the last few years and it seems to be working. I know Christian has said that they are working on some new things to protect the field and i can’t wait to see what they are.
Ron,
Some how that is not a bad idea, but it would shake up the divisions when they are putting them together, I know Christian has it under control and makes his adjustments were needed he has a tuff job, I know I would not want it!
I would love my index adjusted sometimes, for the past 8 years in Mesquite I believe I shot under my index once and that was my first year and my first round. I donot think this year be any different!
Even when I won my division in 2009 I either shot my index or a little above, then on the championship round I think I short index and a half!!fell a part on the finial 4 holes.
For me I come for the competition and stay for the fun and fellow ship.
We are at 100 days and cannot wait, stay warm and safe all.
As previously discussed in the wrong thread. What does the Tournament Committee have in mind this year to help protect the field against some pretty obvious sandbagging. Everyone knows about the laws of probability regarding shooting your HDCP even once in 20 rounds…but to do it 3 days in a row and even lower according to the USGA exceptional round chart is astronomical. For example 25 people in the final last year shot their cap or better. Does the Committee plan on putting in place a “Mesquite am index” for return players? Just curious, cheers